richterbelmont
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Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:17:40 GMT -5
might be a strange subject but considering what cv is about, anyone have any headcanons about how the characters feel about religion? id imagine a lot of them probably have strong feelings about the subject (could be about their faith, or the lack of)
for me i really like alucard converting to judaism after symphony of the night. it IS part of my made up post-sotn canon so theres that, but i think alucard probably has a lot of conflicting feelings about religion after all thats happened "in the name of god" or whatever. i honestly like to think of the church in-universe as being one of the main causes of all the tragedy in the games, whether directly or not (like that the creation of Dracula was related to religious trauma, and literally everything about why the belmont legacy is abusive, using power and threats to control them and binding the family itself to the church). i think that alucard spent a significant portion of their childhood reading, and among those readings were the torah and that its contents moved them (as many of their other books did as well), and that they were reminded of some of those values (namely, the ones surrounding compassion, community, and how crucial it is to life) during sotn, after they were faced with their memories of lisa..
i dont know the likelihood of alucard being able to find a rabbi in 1797 romania, but i like to imagine that it would become important enough to them to actually do so and go through with converting. i also like the thought of richter joining the process after sotn himself- obviously the church wouldnt have taught richter about judaism but i think he would be moved by its values and traditions as well. i see richter as very much wanting to be part of a community where he is valued, which is why the belmont legacy was so difficult, id imagine they do not offer that especially at that point in the timeline (in my headcanon anyway). maria is also very jewish (to me) and ive played with the idea of the renards being an openly jewish family, perhaps she might be the one to remind alucard that faith can be something very loving and very human, not something inherently destructiveand damning
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draculaura
Medusa Head
If vampires are oppressed, then why. simon
Posts: 83
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Post by draculaura on Feb 26, 2023 14:21:49 GMT -5
Bruja Yoko or bust
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:23:41 GMT -5
oh my god your mind..... huge
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Post by wygolvillage on Feb 26, 2023 14:28:43 GMT -5
My headcanon for Shanoa is that she went from Ecclesia's own specific brand of christianity to "frankly i don't know if there's a god and at this point i don't really care"
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Post by mahoshojo on Feb 26, 2023 14:42:51 GMT -5
A lot of fans seem to see Sypha as super Christian/religious and cite "but she worked for the church!" as evidence, but I always thought that since they'd more or less made her suppress her true identity since childhood or adolescence by having her pose as a guy (and maybe even were the ones who pushed her into trying to become a priest rather than that being her own idea?), she'd eventually end up distrusting the whole institution by the time of CV3. The part at the end of the game where she lets her hair down and gets with Trevor and all isn't just a happy ending in terms of their relationship + Drac being dead, but also because it's Sypha symbolically going "fuck this" to the identity/life back at the church that she would've been pushed into otherwise and choosing her own path.
That's not necessarily to say she's an atheist or something, I get the vibe she + her original family might have more of a spiritual/pagan thing going on (wasn't there something in the Japanese CV3 manual about her getting her powers from nature spirits?), but I think she ends up cutting ties with the church pretty conclusively after the game. IDK how Yoko ended up getting back into it, or if she's religious at all or just doing it as a job the same way I see Sypha doing.
Most CV characters are probably some type of religious even if not to the extent of being mega-Christians like some people act like they must be, but for characters like the Belmonts I think whatever religion they might have ultimately comes second to stopping Dracula on their priorities list, which was kind of the point of Leon's whole arc. Other than that I don't think about these characters' religions much.
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:43:42 GMT -5
My headcanon for Shanoa is that she went from Ecclesia's own specific brand of christianity to "frankly i don't know if there's a god and at this point i don't really care" yeah that makes most sense to me given the narrative. too traumatized to think about it or care
i think juste might have some of that going on but i havent expanded on that line of thinking yet. i think his mindset in this sense is very contained to what he was taught by the church so any thoughts of faith are tainted by what he (and the other belmonts) are put through. id imagine that kind of brainwashing would be mind-bending. maybe far later in life he might be more open to other things but after so long in that he probably would just want a break
might as well talk about maxim too. i think his family is unassociated with the church for the most part but they are christian in their own way, a way thats not so abusive. it would help to know the origin of his last name, but it seems to be made up. there are last names Similar to his but the origin ranges from india to sibera (and more). because of his last name i used to headcanon that he is romani, specifically ruska roma, who do practice christianity (but only some groups of roma do, ruska being one of them) (also, maxim is a slavic name)
i dont headcanon this specifically anymore but as for his religion, those are my thoughts on it. i think this origin of his religious views makes sense narratively as he contrasts juste, who is absolutely trapped in a cycle of religious abuse
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:46:55 GMT -5
A lot of fans seem to see Sypha as super Christian/religious and cite "but she worked for the church!" as evidence, but I always thought that since they'd more or less made her suppress her true identity since childhood or adolescence by having her pose as a guy (and maybe even were the ones who pushed her into trying to become a priest rather than that being her own idea?), she'd eventually end up distrusting the whole institution by the time of CV3. The part at the end of the game where she lets her hair down and gets with Trevor and all isn't just a happy ending in terms of their relationship + Drac being dead, but also because it's Sypha symbolically going "fuck this" to the identity/life back at the church that she would've been pushed into otherwise and choosing her own path. That's not necessarily to say she's an atheist or something, I get the vibe she + her original family might have more of a spiritual/pagan thing going on (wasn't there something in the Japanese CV3 manual about her getting her powers from nature spirits?), but I think she ends up cutting ties with the church pretty conclusively after the game. IDK how Yoko ended up getting back into it, or if she's religious at all or just doing it as a job the same way I see Sypha doing. Most CV characters are probably some type of religious even if not to the extent of being mega-Christians like some people act like they must be, but for characters like the Belmonts I think whatever religion they might have ultimately comes second to stopping Dracula on their priorities list, which was kind of the point of Leon's whole arc. Other than that I don't think about these characters' religions much. oh my goddd pagan sypha is really interesting! definitely adopting that headcanon. since her true identity is being suppressed, her being pagan until she becomes associated with the church where she wouldnt be able to express it safely makes a lot of sense (and reminds me what i said about lisa). i would not have figured sypha as being christian personally lol
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Post by leonbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:52:11 GMT -5
Dracula is ex-Catholic but in the way where he has not ever once thought about how conceptions of hell and inescapable mortal sin have affected him and this is why the cycle continues (of course he can't get out! he's committed Evil Acts which Cannot Be Forgiven. Why bother with trying to get out of the pit when you can't? May as well just get eviler). Meanwhile Soma was either not raised Catholic OR has been able to work through his complexes about that before Aria and this is why he can break the cycle.
I think Leon has just as much Catholic religious trauma as Mathias/Dracula but it manifests in totally different ways. If he ever talked about it to Mathias I think Mathias would be like [tails horror dot jpeg] and it would only be fuel to the fire that was the end of LOI (Again while being totally blind to his own religious trauma induced thought patterns. lol).
I haven't actually thought much about religion in Castlevania otherwise. Love how it all started with two guys having equal but opposite ex-Catholic religious trauma that exploded in their faces.
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 14:59:09 GMT -5
Dracula is ex-Catholic but in the way where he has not ever once thought about how conceptions of hell and inescapable mortal sin have affected him and this is why the cycle continues (of course he can't get out! he's committed Evil Acts which Cannot Be Forgiven. Why bother with trying to get out of the pit when you can't? May as well just get eviler). Meanwhile Soma was either not raised Catholic OR has been able to work through his complexes about that before Aria and this is why he can break the cycle. I think Leon has just as much Catholic religious trauma as Mathias/Dracula but it manifests in totally different ways. If he ever talked about it to Mathias I think Mathias would be like [tails horror dot jpeg] and it would only be fuel to the fire that was the end of LOI (Again while being totally blind to his own religious trauma induced thought patterns. lol). I haven't actually thought much about religion in Castlevania otherwise. Love how it all started with two guys having equal but opposite ex-Catholic religious trauma that exploded in their faces. oough yes, i think dracula sees himself as the devil
i also love the parallels between mathias and leon and their own traumas
also- i have a headcanon that soma practices shintoism! i mean, him and mina are at a shrine after all. plus the spiritual beliefs of shintoism actually remind me of how some entities and even just the magic itself in cv, it reminds me of animism which is big for shintoism. soma being influenced by the dark forces of dracula, as well as how richter and maxim are influenced by the same vague Dark Force that dracula claims, reminds me of animism (as well as polytheism- just look at some of those bosses and try to tell me they ARENT a diety.)
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Chains of Eternity
Medusa Head
Every song I thought I knew I've been deafened to, and there's no one left to sing to
Posts: 14
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Post by Chains of Eternity on Feb 26, 2023 15:46:35 GMT -5
*pats the castlevania franchise* this bad boy can fit so many of my complicated feelings abt religion (oh boy there are many)
Overall i really like to think about the christian church tm as an ambivalent/multifacetic entity. When humble and working towards a common goal to help humanity and actually practice what Jesus said it's a powerful force of good but when it abuses its power or falls into inner power fighting, prejuices, ignorance or pretending to judge people in the name of a cruel god, well... *points at pile of dead wifes*. Worth mentioning they would know abt magic and have enough awareness abt the supernatural to not immediately point at anything magical and yell witch (maybe they learned the hard way ? Idk) Cultists like Shaft and Barlove would have used the church tm as a cover and definitely manipulated its flaws to get rid of their enemies (as in "x is a heretic!" or by making factions that would normally oppose them fight eachother or to instill policies that seem "holy and good" but actually cultivate evil in ppl) and continue their works undisturbed.
It's also worth thinking abt what branch did what and so, considering how we got multiple churches, none of them are a monolith, they also would change over time, and how ppl could have acted on their own (for example i think the case of Rosaly was more of an angry mod being terrified and manipulated and that the local church condemned it). I also wonder abt the role of other religions and faiths but i dont wanna commit any offenses by ignorance (btw y'all got some epic hcs there i see)
Apologies if my wall of text is confusing; anyways might also write abt my LoI hc where i give Leon faith and test it by making Mathias run his sense of morals over with an steamroller :)
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 26, 2023 15:52:50 GMT -5
*pats the castlevania franchise* this bad boy can fit so many of my complicated feelings abt religion (oh boy there are many) Overall i really like to think about the christian church tm as an ambivalent/multifacetic entity. When humble and working towards a common goal to help humanity and actually practice what Jesus said it's a powerful force of good but when it abuses its power or falls into inner power fighting, prejuices, ignorance or pretending to judge people in the name of a cruel god, well... *points at pile of dead wifes*. Worth mentioning they would know abt magic and have enough awareness abt the supernatural to not immediately point at anything magical and yell witch (maybe they learned the hard way ? Idk) Cultists like Shaft and Barlove would have used the church tm as a cover and definitely manipulated its flaws to get rid of their enemies (as in "x is a heretic!" or by making factions that would normally oppose them fight eachother or to instill policies that seem "holy and good" but actually cultivate evil in ppl) and continue their works undisturbed. It's also worth thinking abt what branch did what and so, considering how we got multiple churches, none of them are a monolith, they also would change over time, and how ppl could have acted on their own (for example i think the case of Rosaly was more of an angry mod being terrified and manipulated and that the local church condemned it). I also wonder abt the role of other religions and faiths but i dont wanna commit any offenses by ignorance (btw y'all got some epic hcs there i see) Apologies if my wall of text is confusing; anyways might also write abt my LoI hc where i give Leon faith and test it by making Mathias run his sense of morals over with an steamroller :) yeah i love how the series has so much possibility in this department!!! i definitely think "The Church" has gone through a lot of changes and would look different for belmonts of later/earlier generations. like trevor, its obvious his relationship with the church was tenuous but they accepted him, while juste and richter are plain ruled over and the church maintains this Need of them, and leon rebelled against them! (basically, the belmont legacy has gone through many extreme ups and downs). different leaders, different members, thinking about these thing on the scale of the whole timeline is an almost endless task, but it is fun! its good discussion topic, too
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yehor
Medusa Head
can you take my white ass to wygol
Posts: 37
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Post by yehor on Feb 26, 2023 20:49:36 GMT -5
I have Some Thoughts about how the first and only necessary relic in Lament of Innocence that you can't go through the game without picking up is an idol of Svarog. I don't think we really know where specifically Svarog was present in slavic pantheons in 1091 to an exact and never will because existing accounts of pre-christian slavs aren't universal, but FWIW I know at least Pomerania (became a bit of Germany and a bit more of Poland) hadn't been totally Christianized until like twenty to thirty years after LOI's events are set to take place (+many other territories had been a century or less before, so it's likely some people were clinging to their old faiths in private) not to mention there's a lot of debate over if Christianity even "won" in the Eastern Slavic states because our versions of Christianity are more pagan by other people's standards I like to think a parallel between Leon as the willing convert clinging to his new faith vs Mathias as one born into the faith giving it up has some potential. Also I just like it There's more considering Leon leaving the church but Castlevania repeatedly emphasizes the divide between personal faith and faith as an organization so it kinda adds to the layers
For later Belmonts I won't say I headcanon anything in particular beyond them being Orthodox and not Catholic but I do draw a bit of connection to them being christians who don't view their practices that others call """witchcraft""" as such but instead as just another aspect of their faith that may be foreign to other parties.
I feel bad turning this comment into a "I think the belmonts are slavic romanians" conversation but ultimately I can't really explain why I think one without explaining the other
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Chains of Eternity
Medusa Head
Every song I thought I knew I've been deafened to, and there's no one left to sing to
Posts: 14
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Post by Chains of Eternity on Feb 26, 2023 21:54:16 GMT -5
I have Some Thoughts about how the first and only necessary relic in Lament of Innocence that you can't go through the game without picking up is an idol of Svarog. I don't think we really know where specifically Svarog was present in slavic pantheons in 1091 to an exact and never will because existing accounts of pre-christian slavs aren't universal, but FWIW I know at least Pomerania (became a bit of Germany and a bit more of Poland) hadn't been totally Christianized until like twenty to thirty years after LOI's events are set to take place (+many other territories had been a century or less before, so it's likely some people were clinging to their old faiths in private) not to mention there's a lot of debate over if Christianity even "won" in the Eastern Slavic states because our versions of Christianity are more pagan by other people's standards I like to think a parallel between Leon as the willing convert clinging to his new faith vs Mathias as one born into the faith giving it up has some potential. Also I just like it There's more considering Leon leaving the church but Castlevania repeatedly emphasizes the divide between personal faith and faith as an organization so it kinda adds to the layers
For later Belmonts I won't say I headcanon anything in particular beyond them being Orthodox and not Catholic but I do draw a bit of connection to them being christians who don't view their practices that others call """witchcraft""" as such but instead as just another aspect of their faith that may be foreign to other parties.
I feel bad turning this comment into a "I think the belmonts are slavic romanians" conversation but ultimately I can't really explain why I think one without explaining the other No pls keep going that's super fascinating. Plus the mentions of the diversity of christianity and the religious syncretism uufff (my culture here on latam is on 30+ layers of syncretism, heck catholicism itself carries a ton of syncretism including the notion of Jesus as the son of God and the holy trinity coming from polytheism). And one would also assume that a family dedicated to hunting the supernatural would develop rituals different from your average person, and also wonder how these would affect their perception both from the formal churches and from the people, specially pre-Simon era
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Post by beevean on Feb 27, 2023 7:30:05 GMT -5
I thought more than I needed to about Hector and Isaac's relationship with religion lol Both of them were traumatized by religious beliefs, of course, they were thought cursed (and in Isaac's case, probably a strigoi), and their powers are specifically called "blasphemous" (no wonder, they create life, the biggest blasphemy of them all). Hector in the MF manga seems to have rejected God because "he wouldn't listen to him". I also think that Hector rejected the whole concept of worshipping: he's a more detachted, logical person, so he never saw Dracula as a deity but simply as his lord - Dracula gave him a place where he could refine his magic, Hector gives him his loyalty, it's very simple. By the way, this makes his relationship with Rosaly a little more complicated: she's either a nun (MF manga) or she studied in a monastery (PtR manga), but in any case she seems to be a devoted Christian and very generous and altrustic because of that. Perhaps she would make Hector reconsider his prejudice against believers. Isaac, on the other hand, seems to be more... dependent to me. He needs something to worship, to depend on and dedicate himself to. He rejected the Christian God because He hurt him (and his sister?), but he was more than happy to replace Him with Dracula. He's just as stubborn and a zealot as the Christians he despises, but he doesn't see the contradiction in this. This is why he doesn't think about the implications or consequences of the human genocide Dracula ordered him to carry - he cares far more about the Lord who accepted him than a vague "humanity" that he doesn't belong to. (also, I think Isaac names all of his Innocent Devils after Biblical figures for the fun of desecreating the names. He doesn't really think about it deeply, though, because otherwise no way he'd name his best ID after Abel, the dude who was killed by his brother lmao)
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richterbelmont
Skeleton
Is this a dream or is it god telling you it's over?
Posts: 113
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Post by richterbelmont on Feb 27, 2023 14:19:01 GMT -5
I have Some Thoughts about how the first and only necessary relic in Lament of Innocence that you can't go through the game without picking up is an idol of Svarog. I don't think we really know where specifically Svarog was present in slavic pantheons in 1091 to an exact and never will because existing accounts of pre-christian slavs aren't universal, but FWIW I know at least Pomerania (became a bit of Germany and a bit more of Poland) hadn't been totally Christianized until like twenty to thirty years after LOI's events are set to take place (+many other territories had been a century or less before, so it's likely some people were clinging to their old faiths in private) not to mention there's a lot of debate over if Christianity even "won" in the Eastern Slavic states because our versions of Christianity are more pagan by other people's standards I like to think a parallel between Leon as the willing convert clinging to his new faith vs Mathias as one born into the faith giving it up has some potential. Also I just like it There's more considering Leon leaving the church but Castlevania repeatedly emphasizes the divide between personal faith and faith as an organization so it kinda adds to the layers
For later Belmonts I won't say I headcanon anything in particular beyond them being Orthodox and not Catholic but I do draw a bit of connection to them being christians who don't view their practices that others call """witchcraft""" as such but instead as just another aspect of their faith that may be foreign to other parties.
I feel bad turning this comment into a "I think the belmonts are slavic romanians" conversation but ultimately I can't really explain why I think one without explaining the other very cool, the distinction between personal and organized faith that the series has is reaaaaaaally good especially along with the narrative themes, also dont feel bad one bit about putting self indulgent headcanon/theories here because that was partially why i made the thread in the first place (is converting), besides, its always cool to talk about what would historically be the case for the characters/groups (i am more fixated on the scienctific aspect of anthropology/religion, but i still always find historical/cultural accuracy very pleasing)
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